Sunday Sessions 029 : The Deal Funnel

Thank you Donna for letting me know that I’ve been live
for three minutes with no sound at all. My microphone was accidentally muted. So, I have just predaled on for about three
minutes with nobody listening to me. So hello world. This is Rob
from Property Developer Network, coming to you for another Facebook live. My humble apologies for those
of you who were sitting there wondering what was happening in playing
with your volume button. I’m incredibly, yeah, apologetic for that. So
let me talk about everything that I was just repeating
a couple of moments ago. Today’s topic is the deal funnel. We’re
going to be talking a little bit about, what it is that, that I guess dictates opportunities
going into the deal funnel, what happens within the
deal funnel and then, how many opportunities that’s
gonna take to actually create. Now, before we go there, just want
to do a little bit of housekeeping. So want to have a huge
thank you to Tony Meredith, who actually ran my meetup
event in Melbourne yesterday. So kudos to him for
doing that on my behalf. It was actually my
daughter’s 18th birthday, so I was being the responsible
adult staying home, and looking after her and all of
her friends. So big love out to, my darling Amy. I’m so incredibly proud of the person
that you’ve grown up to be darling. And I know, I guess where
you’re heading in life, myself and my wife Cecilia could not be
anything but proud of you darling. So thank you very much. Other logistical things to
put out there for anyone who is interested in our property
development formula program, our 12 months education program, the start date of that is actually in
five days time, so the 11th of October. So if anyone is interested at
all, it’s not too late to join, but I would highly encourage that you’d need to reach out
either today or tomorrow. Otherwise we’re not going
to be able to fit you in. So anyone interested in that, please
feel free to join us. Otherwise, today’s topic is the deal funnel.
So, as I was saying before, when none of you can hear me, the
deal funnel is the thing where you put a whole bunch of properties
into the top of the funnel. The funnel is shaped
a little bit like this and threw a whole bunch
of filtering processes out the bottom pops a deal. And so when
you’re an experienced developer, my anecdotal experience tells me
that about a hundred properties into the top of the funnel, we’ll
get one property pop out as a deal. Now that sounds like a lot, but imagine what that’s like when you’re
an inexperienced developer, and where you actually get to make
a couple of mistakes along the way. So, as you’re learning the process, my anecdotal experience from running
courses for a number of years is about 300 properties for anybody
wanting to put anything into the funnel, we’ll get one out. So that’s a lot of,
effort that needs to go into the process. So it’s quite important that what goes in, is actually dealt with in a very
efficient and effective way. And for anyone who knows about my
property development formula program, we teach a way to, I guess
shortcut how much time you actually spend in
analyzing those properties so that you minimize how
much time you actually spend. Now as it goes in the top of the funnel, there were a number of things that
actually stick it into the funnel. As it goes in each layer as it pops down, we’re going to be putting a
little bit of a filter onto it, to make sure that we’re only letting
quality properties go through the funnel. Now for me, I have a number
of layers in that process. So the first one is, is the
site developable at all? There’s a number of quality
checks that we actually do with regards to the site to
determine is the site developable? That’s a whole bunch of things
looking at zoning of the property, overlays of the property,
constraints, state legislation, local government legislation,
et cetera, et cetera, to actually work out if it’s developable. Now there are a number of properties that, that will pass that first test. And so the temptation is for many to, to jump onto that straight away as a deal. The challenge that I will
put to you is about firstly, about 50% of the sites that you look
at will have some form of problem that will typically be something that
will make you actually want to throw it away. Assuming it passes that first test. Then the next filter that you
put onto it is, is it profitable? And my experience here is
that about 90% of the sites that are developable are not profitable. Meaning that every real estate agent on
earth who tries to sell you a property saying, look at this
development potential, who has no idea how to actually
run a development site self. Each one of those is trying
to get you to buy something with no idea whether or not it’s
actually going to make money. And your job is to actually make sure
that you can identify all the issues, all the challenges on that property, understand the problems that need to
be solved, and also the likelihood of, the sale of the finished product. And what that’s actually going to
generate and run feasibilities on that. The challenge that you’ll find is that developable sites generally have a number of ways of
actually being developable. And whilst there are a ton
of strategies out there, whilst there are a ton
of strategies out there, so I’m just seeing that Chavonne is
saying that she can’t hear me still. So can everybody just give me a thumbs up as to whether or not you
can actually hear me. That would be greatly appreciated. Just a like or something
that be fantastic. Not getting anything. I don’t know if I keep
talking or not folks. I don’t know if anyone is
actually there to hear me. So, any likes nothing. I’m going to keep talking and hopefully
the delayed response between me talking and you guys responding still
allows something to actually occur. Donna’s saying that she can hear me now.
So thank you Donna. Appreciate that. Jay is saying I can hear
you as well. Perfect. Sorry, thank you folks and my
humble apologies for that initial delay right up front, and
there’s a delay coming I mean, there’s always a delay. I love, I love how live is not as live as
it actually appears. So, thank you. So as I was saying, about 90% of the sites that are
developable and not profitable. And so it’s very important
that you actually understand how to analyze those sites to
determine the profitability. But what is interesting in that process is that when you have a look at a site, there are typically more than
one way to actually develop it. And whilst there are ton of strategies
out there. So there’s subdivisions, there’s, there’s units, there’s
townhouses, there’s rent per room, there’s HMO’s, there’s positive
gearing, there’s negative gearing, there’s a like a ton and ton of
strategies out there, renovations, etc. Generally what you’ll find
that within each strategy, there are a number of sub strategies
that may mean that their permutations that applied to a site might be,
I guess incredible in number. And by example only I’d like to say if you were doing a one
into two subdivisions, so that’s taking one large block of land
and just cutting it up into two sites. There’s probably about
20 different permutations and you could do that one
deal, meaning for example, you could knock down the house and
sell two vacant blocks of land. You may be fortunate the
houses in the perfect location, in which case you keep that and you
subdivide a vacant block of land off. So you’re selling an
existing home and renovate it along with a vacant block of land. You may renovate the existing home
and sell the vacant block of land. The house may not be
in the right location, in which case you may need to slide it. In which case you could sell it in the
original condition, sell the vacant land. You could slide it and
renovate it and sell the land. You could build on the vacant
block of land, you can sell it, the existing house, sell down, pay
down, build on the vacant land. And so you can see by the time you
go through all of those different permutations, this is about 20 different
ways of actually doing it. So when you’re trying to
stick a deal into the funnel, you may find that for
your particular strategy, that there are a number of those
permutations that are not profitable. So the key to being a successful developer is to be able to very quickly in
your head in short amount of time, go through all of those
different permutations as to one, can can it actually be done and two,
would it actually be profitable very, very quickly as so as
fast as humanly possible, and I typically try to encourage
my guide just to actually do that within 10 minutes if
they follow my system. And that will then let you
determine whether or not it is actually worthwhile actually
proceeding with the deal itself. And what you may find
is that only one or two of those permutations
may actually make sense. So the person who is
going to make the money is the person who is creative enough to
see all of the permutations, and very, very quickly get to a point
where they can actually, get to that in a position where
they can put an offer in much more, much quicker than I guess the
next person along the line. So I’m seeing lots of different people, giving me feedback on the quality so can
hear me, but now the picture is fuzzy, so not sure what’s happening there folks,
but I’m going to keep talking anyway. Hopefully the sound quality
will actually pick up. I’ve got an NBN connection here so they shouldn’t be actually a
problem from that perspective. Now as you go through
as the first step is, is it developable and which in which case, which permutations within
that are developable. The second one is of those
permutations that are there, which ones are profitable. At this point, you’ve kind of dropped two
layers down into the funnel and then the third layer would then be, can you actually start
to negotiate a deal? And this is where it starts to get tricky, especially when you’re starting
out of the process. So firstly, you’re going to have a lot of nerves. You’re not necessarily gonna know
how to actually deal with the, the negotiation process, but my
encouragement to you is that, what you want to try and do
is actually find out what is the problem that that
vendor is trying to solve. So they are selling the
property for a reason. And if you can understand the reason and understand the motives
for why they are selling, then you can reach into
your little toolkit and with a number of different
acquisition strategies, you can then try to apply
an acquisition strategy that suits their particular circumstances and equally suits your financial
position as to how and where you start. Knowing that a number of
you are trying to start in a no money down type situation because you haven’t got much
money in the piggy bank. There may be a limited number
of acquisition strategies that will actually work for you. And if that vendor’s
circumstances does not allow, then you may not be able to
get that particular deal. Now that doesn’t mean it’s not a deal. It just means that you can’t
financially service that deal. So when you’re starting
with limited resources, you, that’s why a number of these don’t actually get all the way
through the bottom of the funnel. What you can do though, is you have to taking
it all the way through. Is it developable and is it profitable?
And you understand like the terms and finances that that person
has actually looking for. So whilst you may not
acquire it, the opportunity, the opportunity is actually
there for you to actually flip it for a finder’s fee to somebody else, within the network who you know is
looking for the exact same kind of deal. So make sure that you don’t get it all, put in all that work and make no
money from the process at all. Next time around you’ll have a
little bit more money in the kitty, that will then allow you a little bit
more opportunity to take on the next, next layer of challenges. So I won’t go through all of the different
acquisition strategies that you’ve got. But to touch on the fact that
you’ve got an upfront payment, you’ve got delayed, a delayed settlement
with early access. You’ve got options, contracts, you’ve got joint
ventures, you’ve got vendor finance, you’ve got a whole bunch
of acquisition models that are actually available to
you that may actually let you, control the property rather
than owning the property. And by controlling the property, it
means that you, whilst money is required, what you’re trying to do is as much
as humanly possible, defer that, that the funding of that to
the tail end of the project, or alternatively get other people’s
money into actually help you out. So that’s within the
funnel itself. Now, how, and what do you do to actually put
properties into the funnel? Now, for any of you who’ve been
following me for quite some time, you’ll know that I
consistently say you should be, have one strategy and
become a strategy expert, that’s going to allow you to be
able to assess your opportunities and determine that developability
part very, very quickly. So I guess that’s the first part. The next part is that I encourage
you to have one council. So that’s one set of rules to
determine whether or not it’s actually developable. So that very quickly
allows you to make those determinations fast rather than having to learn
many, many, many sets of rules. So even if you are consistent with
one development strategy, if you, are doing that across multiple councils, you’ll find that there’s
actually multiple rules, multiple ways actually doing
that, multiple terminologies
or that sort of thing. Now there are 537 different
councils Australia wide, which means that for any
one particular strategy, there’s 537 different sets of rules
that are actually going to apply. So I highly encourage you
to minimize your effort, in order to get that
first part of the funnel upfront and stick to one
strategy, one council. So that’s the first part to that. If you then start to become an
area expert, again, as I encourage, then that is profitable part. You’re going to be able to
do quite quickly as well. And the reason for that is you’re
going to understand your areas. You’re going to understand
which end of the street is more expensive than the
other end of the street and why you’re gonna know on
which street, what zoning applies. You’re going to understand the
criteria that actually applies here. You’re going to know what the
demographics are of the area, you’re going to know what the
supply and demand is at the area. So your ability to assess the site
becomes quicker and quicker and quicker, that the more that you actually start
to become an expert in the process. So, so that’s the, I
guess the funnel itself. Now what goes into the funnel? So if you truly are an area expert
and if you truly are a subject expert, then you’re gonna start to get to a point where you actually start to analyze
every single property within those areas that you are an expert in, and you’re gonna know and
identify right up front. Let’s just say hypothetically
that your particular suburb that you’re going to
become an area expert in, happens to have about 300 properties
that have the right zoning, and right land size that may
fit your particular strategy. Now if you follow my methodology, you put about 10 minutes into each
and every one of those properties to quickly work out whether or not
that development capability is actually there. And you may very quickly drop that
300 figure down to about 120 or 150, which means that you now
have a hot list of properties that have passed the
first layer of the test. Now the second layer of the
test, which is is it developable. the second layer of
the test, and when did, when we’re looking at 300 odd properties, if you’re putting 10 minutes into that, I’m just gonna do some quick math on that. So 300 times 10 minutes divided by 60, you’re looking at 50 hours. Now depending upon how many hours
that you put into this a week, that might be four or five weeks to
actually becoming an area expert, which is not as scary as it sounds. A lot of you I guess are
putting lots of time in, but the time is not
necessarily quality time. So what we’re trying to encourage
you to do is if you have a process, if you have a methodology, if you can do
that in a rinse and repeat type basis, then it’s going to be
very, very good for you. Now I’m seeing a number of, likes and the likes come through, so
thank you very much for that folks. I do encourage questions as we go. So if you do have any questions
on this process as I’m going, there is a little bit of
a lag between me talking and your question coming through. So please make sure that
you ask those questions and I’m more than happy to do that. So let’s talk about how we
put stuff into the funnel. So you’ve gone through and started
to analyze those properties. And you’ve now got yourself a hot list.
So by building yourself that hot list, what you can now do is
start to farm that hot list. And the more that you farm the hot list, the more likely it is that you’re
actually going to get opportunities. Now the reality is that
most properties turnover approximately once
every seven to 10 years. So if you’ve got 100
properties in your hot list, then on average about 10 of those are going to hit the market
in any one calendar year. So what we’re trying to do is
get you to a point where you’re improving your chances of getting those 10 and also starting to attract the people that might be thinking of
selling in year two or year three so that you improve that
from 10 to maybe 20 or 30ish that are interested in actually talking
to you with regards to selling to you. So how we do that, there are a number
of strategies that actually would apply. So firstly I would encourage you
to start to little box drop, okay. So you’ve identified the target
properties and now like a sniper, you can actually send targeted
letters to individual properties that you know are developable. And you know from your
previous analysis that the, the suburb that you’re in
actually becoming an expert in has a high likelihood of profitability. So the chances are if that
person is interested in selling and they’re interested in
selling at market price, there’s a very good chance that
it’s a profitable deal. Now, there’s no guarantee
at this point in time, but we’re trying to improve
our chances of that. Now, what I see in a lot of
other courses out there is they would get you to send the
letters out to every property in the area which means that you’re sending
letters out to, unqualified sites So ones that are not developable.
So when a phone call comes in with somebody who responds
to one of your letters, you don’t know if it truly is a
property that you’re interested in or if it’s one of dots that
might’ve fallen out. So one, it wastes a lot of time on your behalf.
And two, it wastes a lot of money. So if you think that a
letter now is a dollar five or a dollar of ten to send a letter out,
and if you’re sending 300 letters out, this $300 every cent,
every single time you hit, a hit send on the post. So instead what you could do is on your, the properties that you’ve now
done a sniper assessment on, you can now send some targeted letters
out and you now for the same budget, you can send a series of letters over
multiple months to those properties. And for this exact same amount of spend,
which means that you can start to, educate those people as to how and why
and remind them that you are the person that direct is actually
looking into their property. They could do a whole
bunch of things on your, on your letters from encouraging them to sell off market and avoid agents fees to letting them know that if
they can do creative terms, you can pay a little bit over market to
a number of things along those lines. But no matter how you send a
letter out, the one letter, and I get this question all the
time, the one letter that you send, I guarantee is going to be liked
by 50% of the people out there and not liked by the other 50%. So
if you send a letter that says, Hey, I’m interested in buying large
blocks of land, then you will, you’ll get interested people who are
looking to sell, at any point in time. But anyone who thinks that their
site is developable already, will likely not be interested because
they’ll think that you’re not a developer and they won’t be interested in your, in
your letter. Equally, if you say, Hey, I’m a developer and you send it out, then you probably going to
upset the first round of people and you’ll interest the second one. So instead what I propose is that
you use those series of letters to start to build a little bit of a story behind who you are and what you’re about. So the first round of letters might be
just very general in nature to say, Hey, I’m looking at larger properties in the
area. Very interested in your property, it’s come to mind. I’m not an agent.
Hey, would you mind giving me a call? Now that might interest the first 50%,
but not interested in the second 50%. So that’s fantastic. But, I guess you’ve only
hit 50% of your market. So the second letter that you send
out might be a little bit more, I guess indicating that
you might be a developer or you might be able to pay over rates. And then the third letter that
you send out, within say, Hey, I’m a fully fledged developer. So you’ve basically been able to hit all, all three, areas of your, of your target
market, with the exact same budget as you would have spent if you just blank
it blank it bound to the entire area which means that one, they’re getting
to see your name quite regularly so you’re going to become familiar. Two, you’re going to start to build a
little bit of a rapport, and three, you’re gonna attract all of the
people at both ends of the market. So the people who liked developers and
the people who don’t like developers. And so it’s, it’s a reasonable
tactic to actually do that. What that then starts to
do is encourage people who are both looking to sell and also, thinking of selling in
a couple of years time to actually have you reasonably
high on their agenda. So that’s one way to do that. The other, so that’s one way
to put stuff into the funnel. The other thing that I would say is, use the fact that you have agents
in your area to your advantage. So if you’ve got a hundred or
120 properties on your hit list, why would you not approach every
single agent in the area and say, Hey, I’ve got a hit list of properties, would you like to look at
these five properties for me? And you go to the next agent
and give them a different five, and you let the agents scurry
out and do the legwork for you. And they will go cause they know
that you’re an interested buyer. They know that you’ve got budget, they
know that you’re ready to do stuff, and they will go do the
door knocking for you. So that’s what that then
tells you is whether or not you’ve actually got a
motivated agent on board. and it’s a good way to actually
test their capabilities. Now not every agent is actually
going to be good at that. So that’s going to be a great
way to actually work that out. And if an agent comes back and
they weren’t, were no good, then just like those five properties and give that back to one of
the other agents that were good. And then you’ll be able to start to,
to I guess, carpet bomb that area. The other thing that you
would obviously still do is keep eye on the fact that you’ve got,
alerts on domain and for example, and you would
make sure that those, alerts are coming through for
your area. And when it does, because you’ve already
done that first round test, what you’re then gonna
do is you’re going to have a look at the alert that’s come
through and say, hey, is this on my list? and if it’s not, then that’s
the end of your assessment. Cause you’ve already put it
through that first round filter. If it is on your list, now you’re going to go to the second
layer of the list and say, well, is it actually likely
to be profitable now? And that’s where you’re gonna put
a lot more effort into the process. Now for me, layer one is
about a 10 minute check, and layer two is about a two hour check. And at that point I’m in a position
because I’m an area expert, I know that I’m willing to actually,
start negotiations at that point. The other way that you get more
opportunities into your funnel is make sure that you’re dealing with
consultants who are experts in your area. So your surveyors, your town
planners, your civil engineers, all those sorts of things. And if they know what your expertise is and they know what your expertise in the area is and you let them know
that you’re looking for opportunities, and that you’re happy to pay spotter’s
fees for everything that comes through, then those consultants are
likely to give you opportunities where they come across from themselves. Remembering they’re looking at properties
all the time, every single time. And so it’s going to be one of
those things where, you know, if you are top on their agenda, and if they know that you’re
happy to pay a finder’s fee, then they’re going to send it to you, before they send it to the next
guy down the food chain. So, yeah, that’s always good.
Rachel’s got a question, not clear re door knocking, what
if the occupants are tenants? So good question Rachel. You
can actually determine that, typically by looking at either RP data or price finder that will then
let you know whether or not the owner of the property actually
she also resides at the property. You’re also going to be able to
see through your sales history whether or not the property has
ever been for rent before as well. So that’s going to give
you a good indication as to
whether or not it’s a rental or not. And if it is a rental, then it’s, typically the, the, the
history will actually tell
you who the rental agency is. And so you could actually
approach the rental agency and get them to approach
the owners on your behalf. And I’ve done that numerous times and
been quite successful in the process. So hopefully that answers
your question. yes, it, I wouldn’t just go door knocking randomly. Make sure you do that homework up front,
but excellent question. Glad you asked. Rachel’s also got other questions.
Sorry, who were the consultants? Do you mean agents? I missed
the start of the topic. No, I what I’m talking about here, Rachel, is your town planners,
your civil engineers, your architects, all those sorts of
things on your particular strategy, in your particular area. They’re the
consultants that I’m talking about, and the topic is the deal funnel.
Rachel’s got another comment. Okay. So you wouldn’t give the
agents addresses for tenants? No, I wouldn’t do that Rachel. I would
make sure that I would approach the, the agency that is actually
managing the property and get them to approach
the owners themselves. I wouldn’t give that through
the tenants at all. So, otherwise it probably won’t get through. So other ways to actually put
things through your deal funnel is talking to your real estate agents and
actually building a rapport with them. So part of the process in
giving them the five properties to get actually go out and
do the door knocking on is actually building
that rapport with them. So you want to make sure that you’re
constantly checking up with them. You’re giving them very clear instructions as to exactly the kind of properties
that you’re looking for, the size, the zoning, et cetera, the
budget that you’re looking for, the terms that you’re looking for. so that they can actually bring you
opportunities on a regular basis. Now, to build any relationship with any one, you typically need anywhere between
three and five interactions with someone, for them to even remember who you
are. So what you’re looking for is three to five reasons to actually
call them on a regular basis. So typically what I would do when I’m
trying to build a rapport with an agent, is I would give them a phone call
the first time round and say, hi, you’re new in the area, or I’m new in
the area, whichever the case might be or I’m starting to look in this area. These are the qualities of a property
that I’m actually looking for. You can list the zoning. You can
list your, land size criteria. You can list your price points and the
terms that you’re actually looking for and just say, would it be
okay if I send you an email that documents this so that
you know that I’m on your list. So the first one is the actual phone call. The second contact is the email. And so that’s two contexts you’ve
had with them straight away. And then about a week later I give them
a call and say, Hey, just checking, you’ve got my email. Wanted to go through to see if you
actually had any questions on that. So now all of a sudden you’ve
manufactured three reasons to actually have a conversation
with someone all on the same topic. So they know that you’re clear,
they know that you’re serious, they know exactly what you’re looking for. Now I would now put them onto a register to follow up every couple
of weeks to just say, Hey, you know what my criteria is just seeing
if you’ve got anything else on the list. So, and make sure that your, if you then give them opportunities for them to actually go door knocking
for you, that’s fourth reason and I guess you just trying
to build that rapport, so over and over as many times as humanly
possible try to interact with them. I guess that’s from a sales
agent’s point of view, but I would also say that
there are buyers agents that you want to start to engage with. So a buyers agent typically
find properties for you, but they will find that for a fee. So sometimes it’s an
upfront engagement fee, sometimes it’s a tail end success fee,
and sometimes it’s a combination of both. but if you are, if you’ve got more
people looking at opportunities for you, that’s more, more opportunities
actually gonna come into the funnel. So I always try to make sure that
I don’t exclude buyer’s agents, even if I am experienced
in finding my own sites. I’m more than happy to pay a finder’s fee and have regularly paid finders
fees for people who bring me sites that are both developable and
profitable. So make sure you do that. One of the other ones that, it’s
going to sound really strange, but serendipity. Now
serendipity is by circumstance, by chance that you have
conversations with people that let them know that you are
actually looking for property. Now, what I find many people are afraid
to do in the very early stages when they’re learning to
become a property developer, they’re very afraid to actually
say, Hey, I’m a property developer. Instead, they hide behind it because they’re
afraid what people might actually think. Now for me, I’d encourage you
to be the other way around. So when you’re at work and you’re
talking to someone over lunch or at the water cooler and say,
Hey, what did you do on the weekend? Let them know, I spent all
weekend looking at properties. I am studying to become
a property developer. I found what I think is going to
be a deal. It ended up being a dud, but actually have that conversation, because when you starting to have
conversations about property, then what do you know? People will
start to talk to you about property. And that’s when you’re
going to find out that that person might not necessarily
be selling a property, but then next to their neighbor is, and he was talking to his neighbor
and they think it’s developable and they are really looking for someone
to sell it to who is a developer, or they are looking at how
do we maximize the return? And you’d be surprised
at how many conversations actually happen like that
over barbecues, over coffee, just because of the fact
that people, actually know, that you are in the business of
property and property development. So make sure you put
yourself into a situation, where people actually know what you do. I can’t remember who the
quote actually comes from, but basically it’s the harder
I work, the luckier I get, and your working hard to
actually let people know that you’re actually in
this game for as a business. So that’s pretty much the
property funnel folks. As I said right at the very start,
today is gonna be a short session. Given that it’s the NRL grand final day
myself actually being a rugby tragic myself, I’m going to sit back on the
couch and yell at the TV for a few hours and no doubt there’s a few of
you who have not turned up today specifically cause you want
to watch the rugby as well. I also know seeing some of
the faces out there that, that the people that are here today are typically not those rugby fans or
they’re instead of the property fan. So, thank you very much folks. I really
appreciate you being here today. I will be back again next
Sunday. The next Sunday. I am going to, it’s actually the end of our first
part of our three day course, our property development formula program. So we will have just finished
the day three of the program, and so I may be a little bit hoarse
from talking for three days straight, but we will still be doing a Facebook
live, instead of our usual five o’clock it’s actually going to be at six
o’clock in the afternoon on Sunday next weekend. So until then, folks, let me
just see if there’s any last questions, no, there’s not. So until then,
folks, thank you very much. and I will see you next week. Bye for now.

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